Forum Activity for @angenieux drupa

The mixture is thick and without stirring it it woult stay (solidified) on the edge of the recipient. my thermometer is electric with a probe (sonde in french).

Sounds on the surface like it should work. When you get down to 27 C - how thick is the mixture? Also how certain are you of the calibration of your thermometer?

Sorry, i ate the end of the discussion:-). So after i put the recipient with the hot liquor in another with cool water until the liquor reaches 27C and put it back to hot until 31C in the tajin.Then I mould the chocolate. I keep stirring the liquor all along this process.

So?

Hi Kerry I agree with you. Here is the way i do the tempering" au bain marie". I use an electris tajin to do it. I put the recipient with the chocolate liquor in it. I control the temperature until 48 C (dark chocolate) after i

Drupa,

It sounds like your problem is in the tempering - it's challenging to temper in a humid environment and you may find that you continue to have problems until you can get an air conditioned space set up to temper. But in the meantime can you tell us how you are tempering your chocolate so we can help you troubleshoot?

I know when I send bars I put them in an envelope or with bubble wrap but also the people who make bars know how to temper and that keeps it from melting.I don't make chocolate except for myself for fun and my tempering is not good,has to be near the cold or it gets too soft,but I would love to be able to try your bar and I know another person who would also be interested.I love being able to discover new bars and to keep on tasting and see things from a consumer point of view.I leave the chocolate making to the people who know how to do it.

hello Adrienne,

I will be happy to send you a bar but i am wondering in what form it will reach to you. I have no idea yet how to do the package to travel towards you without the chocolate melt.Especially because of the problems i have mentionned in my last reply. Can someone help?

Hello Angenieux,

If you are making bars this chocolate loving girl would love to be able to try a bar and buy.

I live in New York City and always looking to try new bars. I tried some bars from Australia and the two out of the

four I really liked but the bars were interesting to try and glad I did.I would also share your bars with other chocolate loving friends here.

Nice to meet you olivier, I wanted to share chocolate making with members who deal with the heat and the humidity of their country, I supposed that the tempering is done in a air conditionning room, i don't have that privilege for the moment, so i tried to do the temper in the evening but my chocolate..."trs bons..." is melting too fast when i took it out of the fridge (15 min after). Obviously i miss something in the tempering process (i make only dark chocolate). I have started to plant cacao trees, do you plant also?( my name is drupa).

A bientt.

Hi Angenieux,

I am in Chile so on the other side of South America but I just wanted to let you know there are members from South America. Je parle franais y tambien castellano.

I am happy to find a site with people sharing my passion of making chocolate. I feel somehow lonely coming from south america and not have already seen any discussion of any south american members...Maybe I didn't search enough.

I started to be interrested by cacao when i had the opportunity to discover that french guiana had ancient abandonned cacao plantations since the colonisation period.For almost one year and a half I tryed with a friend to make at first the traditionnal cacao"baton"(don't know how to translate). Basically it is the nibs less or more fermented,dryed , less or more torrefied and grinded manually making a pastry rolled into a stick and served for traditionnal cacao drink after grating it into boilling milk with addition of sugar and spice.At that moment we just had the equipment for doing that.

Soon after we started to aim the chocolate making. Looking after internet , trying different fermentations, discovering the type of cacao we used (though it was forasteros but...discovering according to litterature and experiences that there were a lot of hybridation since the colonial period...)

We visited another chocolate maker in the country,and in a bordering country (suriname) both artisans .

We did experimentations until we discovered the melanger of cacaotown.I went to england to buy it(double price to shipping from the usa and more to pay at the customs here)...And tempering with marble and "bain marie".

Tests of tasting with the local and europeans inhabitants...Waiting for us to sell...from tree to bar. There is a lack of a lot of things over here and it is a patient and hard labour to fulfill our aims because we are very exigeant with the product and with ourselves.

What else to say ?My company is about to be created (small skale from tree to bar) and in spite of my mediocre english expression, i hope you will understand my introduction .

Hi Jessica,

While we do not produce any chocolate, we are producing Raw Organic Cocoa Nibs. Feel free to contact me if you would like more info ddomingo@ecomtrading.com

Dan

Hi Jess - testing was standard plate count, salmonella, and e.coli. products were commercially available and purchased retail or mail order - i won't list the brands here - nor their specific results - as that's a pretty good way to destroy someone's business, but the individuals were notified. Note that this was not done at their request. The results are not encouraging (one case had 10^11 levels!), and have sparked discussions with the FDA to address the issue if it continues to emerge in a non-controlled fashion.

Suffice it to say that i know of no validated safe way to produce a raw chocolate, as defined by <118F temps, today, and i've been exposed to a bit more process/tech as it relates to chocolate than your average bear. The issue is 100% a microbiological one.

John,

Thank you for your insight. I respect Vanessa and Gnosis Chocolate. I will reach out to her.

Jessica

Thank you for your reply Sebastian. Im curious about the testing you have done. What brands and sources have you tested? DId you primarily test only the beans, or did you test the cacao powder and butter as well? And, because I am only minimally informed on this issue: What is your process for testing and what is a "normal" micro load on a roasted cacao bean versus the numbers you got on the unroasted products?

Please forgive the number of questions I am curious by nature and am on a mission to know.

Hi Jessica,

I am on the consumer end and keep on trying dark chocolate bars.

I have tasted many raw cocoa bars and there were only a few that I did like

For me I like my chocolate roasted or cooked,I am not against the bar being raw it just has to taste good

I think with some of the makers adding palm sugar or coconut sugar makes the bars taste better and hope I used the sugar terms correctly.

Hi Jessica,

You might want to reach out to Vanessa at http://www.gnosischocolate.com/ . Gnosis makes some good raw chocolate, and Vanessa is quite helpful. You can say the John from Travel Chocolate suggested that you contact her. Good luck! John R.

How do they address it? They don't. I've tested a number of them, and to be frank they were off the charts high in micro load. It's only a matter of time before the FDA steps in and regulates this. Discussions have already been had. It's on the docket. If the industry doesn't self regulate, government will.

UV light will not be effective as there are far too many 'nooks and crannies' where the UV doesn't shine.

I'm working out a way that *might* allow a raw, micro safe product to be made, but it's not tested yet. I think it's possible, but i need to noodle through some more things on it first.

I just found this post on chocolatealchemy about the Champion Juicer:

http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/grinding.php

I have a dream of creating a raw bean-to-bar business. I am very curious in learning more about the process. I know there are a lot of postings on this forum surrounding the issue of "raw." I have gleaned a lot of pertinent information from previous forums.

At this point, I would love to hear from someone who is actually doing it. It seems that there is a lot of concern about the safety of unroasted beans, which is a very valid concern. How do raw chocolate makers deal with this issue. Clay mentioned that UV lights could be utilized to sterilize the beans. Has anyone used this system?

Another question I have is about the winnowing and grinding. It seems that roasting loosens the hull. In a post on this site from Big Tree Farms, he mentions that he winnows the bean and then removes the rest of the hull by hand. I have also heard that you can use a champion juicer, which will remove the hull. Has anyone employed these methods? Or somehow increased the efficiency?

To be honest, I am far less interested in the "Raw" temperature standards and enzymatic activity, than I am in using the unroasted cacao. Call me crazy, but I really like the gentle flavors I get. I do not intend to market my product as "raw", simply as using unroasted beans. I am disinterested in arguing the validity of the "RAW" label, as there is plenty of forum information on that topic already. I am merely exploring whether this is a functional route. Any help is hugely appreciated.

Thank you!!!

Jessica

Kristofer,

very good and helpful information. Did you have good success with freeze dried products, like strawberries? we tried to make them but they formed lumps or ended up broken into smaller pieces as freeze dried products are very fragile. It is very hard to separate them by hand because of that. What is your experience with freeze dried products?

Union Machinery makes a small coating pan for under $2000. I bought one about two months ago. It has no heating/cooling.

I use my air conditioner, a fan and a hair dryer as my cooling/heating sources.

Here's a picture of some milk-chocolate panned macadamias done in this pan.

Hi Sally,

The Kitchen-Aid attachment, provided you already own a Kitchen-Aid, is a great way to get started. It is fun and inexpensive, and allows you to try out the process before making a bigger investment. Stand-alone panning machines can cost, as far as I know, upwards of $3000-$4000 and don't do much larger a volume than the attachment, which costs between $500-$750. And personally, I would rather get multiple attachments if I could spend the 3/4k, because it would allow you to process different flavors at the same time.

The detractor of both of these machines is that you don't have a built in heating/cooling unit, the latter of which is very necessary to do a proper product and volume. Chocofreeze is an expensive substitute, but I did use that at times to speed up the process. The next step up is a machine like the Selmi Comfit, which pans around 40kg at a time and costs about $16000, and has a built in air compressor.

The Kitchen-Aid is painfully slow once you realize that you really need to start producing more, and if you factor in time wasted + lesser product quality with the smaller machines, something like the Selmi Comfit begins to seem more and more reasonable financially.

Breakdown:

Kitchen-Aid Attachment-

$500-750 USD

1 kg capacity (finished product)

Stand-Alone (various brands)-

$3000-$4000 USD

2-4 kg capacity (finished product)

Selmi Comfit-

$16000 USD

40-45 kg capacity (finished product)

This is by far one of the best contributions anyone has made here on TCL. Thank you for this. For a beginner panner this is invaluable information.

At what point would you speed up or slow down the pan?

Thank you, that is the most informative post on panning I have been able to find anywhere...

A great, informative post. Thank you.

Hi Meira,

I realize this is a bit late, but I'm still happy to answer your question.

In order to pan products, you must have some sort of specialized machine for it; the Kitchen Aid attachment is a good beginning option and not overly costly. From there, stand-alone panning machines can range in the $3000 - $6000 USD range, or even above to $16,000 or more. When purchasing equipment, consider how much product you would have to sell in order to pay for that machine. A large reason people do not do the process anymore is because larger companies have made it so incredibly cheap to buy, and a small confectionery shop would have to charge significantly higher prices to make a profit. While many people are happy to pay for a quality product, there are 10 times more who either cannot or will not choose that option.

There is no standard recipe for panning, just as there is no standard recipe for caramel, ganache, etc.; each chocolatier or confectioner employs their own unique process depending on what ingredient they want to coat, what they want to coat it in, how they want to finish their product (some products are given a glazed or shiny appearance, others are given a truffled appearance) and the equipment they have available.

That being said, there is a standard process that most follow in order to get a quality product. In addition, to my knowledge there is not a lot of information or literature available on the panning process, and very few people actually perform it nowadays. It is mostly something reserved for large confectionery companies, i.e. Mars, Nestl, etc.

Basic Technical Process:

For sake of example, let's use hazelnuts, however you could use most any nut, or even freeze-dried fruits like bananas, raspberries or blueberries.

• Caramelize your hazelnuts (most people use sugar, we prefer to use honey - both work well).
• Spread them on a non-stick surface and allow them to cool, then proceed to separate them.
• Place them in your panning machine.
• Begin rotating your confectionery drum.
• Add a coating of crystallized chocolate (let's say 100-150 g per addition of chocolate for 500 g of product (in this case hazelnuts).
• Apply cold air to help the product set quickly, or simply wait (some machines come with a built-in fan, or you can use a pressurized can of cold air).
• Once the product begins to set, you may add another layer of chocolate; most often you do not wait until it is fully set and hard.
• At these times, you may also add other products, such as feuilletine, to introduce another texture.
• Once you reach a thickness that you prefer - in this case, the total amount of chocolate you use to coat your product depends on two things: a. the shape of your product; the object of the panning process is to make a round product, so if you start with something such as an almond, which is flatter and has more surface area, rather than a hazelnut, the amount of chocolate you need to add will be much greater, and b. the desired thickness that you prefer in your confection. So you see there is really no standard recipe, as it depends on a number of factors.
• Now you are ready to finish your product. If you would like a truffled appearance: once you have reached your desired thickness, add one final coat of chocolate to your product. Then immediately add cocoa powder, allow your product to complete a few more revolutions in the panning drum and then stop the machine. If you allow the machine to continue too long after adding the cocoa powder, your products will take on a duller appearance. In addition, cocoa powder is an example ingredient; if you were coating with white chocolate, you may want to add a white finish such as confectioner's sugar, coconut powder, etc, or therefore any color you desire by adding food-grade powder. We use alfalfa, hibiscus, blueberry and beet powder to obtain different finishes.
• If you would like a shiny or glossy finish, there are additional steps to take. Once you have reached a final thickness that you prefer, remove your product from the machine and clean your machine thoroughly - there is a large amount of chocolate stuck to the drum, which you may heat and remove, and reserve for another use.
• Once your machine is clean, add your coated product back into the drum. Now you will do a two-step process called glossing and lacquering.
• An example of a glossing recipe is: 350 g water, 570 g maltodextrin, 80 g cocoa butter - Melt the cocoa butter. Warm the water and dissolve the maltodextrin powder. Combine the water into the butter mixture. Keep between 30-35C.
• An example of a lacquer recipe is: 170 g water, 85 g gum arabic powder, 250 g 70 proof liquor - Heat the water and dissolve the gum arabic. Combine in a mixer while gradually adding the liquor.
• Now to proceed with glossing your product. Weigh out 1% of your nuts in glossing solution.
• With your machine running, and your product inside, use a heat gun to VERY slightly warm the outside of your coated product, just enough to make it soft but not melt. At this point, add your 1% of glossing solution all at once.
• Allow your glossing solution to dry. This may take up to 30 minutes, but at this point the nuts should be starting to shine.
• Weigh out 0.5% of lacquer solution in relation to the amount of product you are coating. Once the glossing solution is dry, you may add the lacquer solution. Allow to dry again.
• Remove the products from the machine, and allow them to dry; alternatively, dry them with a fan.
• You may need to repeat the process an additional time in order to achieve the desired level of shine.

That is the basic, and by basic I mean fairly complex and intricate, process. It represents only a small portion of what you may do with panning products, and as always with chocolate, your imagination is the only limit.

A basic quantity recipe you may start with could be:

400 g hazelnuts

135 g sugar + 45 g water (to caramelize the nuts)

1000 g crystallized chocolate

100 g cocoa powder

One final note on the panning process: some people prefer to use non-crystallized chocolate (and may advise you to do so), at a temperature of about 40C (104F), however we do not. We have found better results with a crystallized product than not, but you may certainly experiment yourself.

Feel free to ask any other questions; I will be happy to answer as best I can.

Kind regards,

Kristofer

Hi Hector,

i like in the percents from 60-75%

But for me it is all in the taste of the bars as long as they taste good

I would be interested in trying your bar and I know my good friend who also likes chocolate would

be interested too.

Do You make dark chocolate bars and where are you located?

Please see my parts list above for a cheaper/more diy solution.

9 blades $25, rod $10, handles $14, spacers $7, nuts $4, giving a spacing of 1.375". You would need to pay about $7 more for the spacers (and stack pairs) to get 1.25". Give or take $65 for a cutter to your specifications.

-Jon

Thanks! 9 blades (plus rod) will cut a 12" toffee at 1.25 inch increments (leaving .75 inch) for $177.59. This could be the best deal out there and it appears to be the same or pretty close to the one that retails for $485. Unfortunately they are out of stock.

Interesting about the pizza wheels getting caught.

I guess I got lucky with the pizza blades that I selected. They have a hub in the center, about 1/8" thick and 3/4" in diameter, with a 3/8" hole. They ride perfectly on the all-thread.

I was just doing a search for something else, and found this:
http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_432703

They sell the central rod and the blades separately. The central rod is $30, the blades are $16 each (ouch!). If you only need a few blades (say for scoring bark) then this might be a reasonable way to go.

-Jon

I'd advise against using pastry cutter. We tried that and had terrible issues with the spacing between the blades. There is too much play in the accordion mechanism, and the wheels are wobbly. If you do use one, the best thing I've seen is to screw the spacing to a piece of hardwood. This will eliminate most of the play in the accordion, but won't do much for the sloppy wheels.

- If you would like to buy my pastry cutter, I'll sell it for $10.

We ended up building a roller cutter similar to what Jon posted above. (The part numbers are FABULOUS!) Thank you Jon.

I tried using all-thread with various spacers, but found the pizza blades would get stuck in a thread and get cock-eyed (non-parallel). So, we went witha length of bar then used cap nuts to hold it all together.

I imagine we could get our bar threaded and thus be able to have nice handles. That will be a great step up.

I'd be curious to know as well! Also, if something like this pastry cutter wheel set would work...

In any case, when i use a knife, i rarely get a full cut in one knife length which requires lifting and moving (the 'frames' i use are clearly the wrong size for knife cutting). so eager to find alternatives that don't cost such a mighty amount!

I have not had good luck with rolling cutters for ganache; the ganache tends to stick to the side of the roller. However another chocolate life member has pictures showing good luck...as well as their home-made roller cutters.

http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/diy-guitar?commentId=1978963%3AComment%3A134163

I have also made my own rolling cutter; materials for one 12" wide with cutters on 5/8" centers would cost about $90.

I used the following components:

replacement pizza cutter blades, http://www.katom.com/166-PCW4.htm l

parts from McMaster-Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com ):

stainless steel threaded rod 93250A460

nylon unthreaded spacers 94639A212

tapered handle with threaded insert 57455K64

stainless steel hex nuts 92673A125

They have different sized spacers. It is trivial to make a couple of different cutters for the different sizes that you need.

-Jon

The vendor of the most expensive one said their cutter would work, but I was also looking for the opinion of someone on the forum who had used one and so far no one has responded. Assuming any of them might work, I would have thought more people might have used them as a cheaper alternative to a guitar or until a guitar was necessary. The mid-priced one is adjustable without having to remove the blades and add spacers. I think you probably need to buy extra blades for the $400 cutter so the price is probably closer to $485. It would be nice to know if the $200 scored caramel/toffee and also cut ganache up to a half inch thick, at least better than I can do freehand.

Hi Jim

Did you get anywhere with this?

I am thinking along the same lines of buying a caramel cutter to use for ganache slabs.

Cheers

Lisa